You know, this is why I like this comment section: because I learn so much from others... Great zot! To think I never heard of Turchin is a little embarrassing but delighted now that you tipped me off. I read his Wikipedia page and I see he has a website. That he applies complexity theory to history and civilization is a big thrill for me. I've read some of Stuart Kauffman's books on the subject and one so far from Harold Morowitz, but Turchin looks spot on in applying it to where I was hoping somebody would. Your other points are well stated and due pondering. I'm going to pick up 2 or 3 of Turchin's books and give them a read. Thanks for the tip!